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tv   Crossfire  CNN  May 12, 2014 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT

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plus, donald sterling tells cnn he's the victim of a setup who was tricked into making racist remarks. stand by for more of anderson cooper's interview with the interview. his health and state of mind. and this -- chaos and violence as a new vote threatens to tear ukraine farther apart. will russia annex another part of the country and throw more fuel on this explosive conflict? we want to welcome our viewers in the united states around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." cnn has learned that a new reevaluation of flight 370 data is under way. this comes hours before the hunt for the plane resumes, serious new doubts are being raised right now about the possible pings from the so-called black
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boxes and whether searchers have been looking in the wrong place for weeks and weeks. the ocean shield is closing in on that same area, even as we speak. our experts are standing by. they're looking at all the new information coming into "the situation room." let's get the very latest from aviation correspondent rene marsh. what are you learning? >> today, wolf, a u.s. navy source telling me reanalysis of critical data is happening right hi here in the united states. a couple u.s. ajeansys and consultants are taking a fresh look at the pinger data. we know crews have centered their search around the four pings believe ed to be from the black boxes. cnn learned in three to four weeks these u.s. agencies and consultants are expected to say whether they believe those sounds were from the black boxes or something else. bluefin-21 is about to return to the water on its 19th dive. >> i'm still hopeful that we'll find something in that area. >> reporter: the underwater drone is going back to the area
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where four electronic signals were detected more than a month ago. but there's growing concern some or all of those electronic pings did not come from flight 370's black boxes. the captain of the ocean shield tells "the wall street journal" that searchers increasingly doubt that the third and fourth pings came from a manmade device. those transmissions were picked up on april 8th and according to "the wall street journal" report had a frequency of around 27 kiloher kilohertz, a lower level than the first two pings detected on april 5th which had a frequency of about 33 kilohertz. flight data recorders emit signals at a frequency of 37.5. >> it's interesting to me, though, that this hasn't been mentioned before. nobody said anything about this before. they had even told us before that they were searching within the area or plan to within the area of all four pings. >> reporter: u.s. navy sources tell cnn they've always had
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greater confidence in the first two pings. including one that lasted 2 hours and 20 minutes. the bluefin-21 is expected to focus on the area of the first ping when it returns to the water. after scouring the vicinity of the second ping, and coming up with nothing, giving more fuel to skeptics. >> if their technology works, if this technology scanning the ocean floor works, you think they would have found something by that. >> the search coordinator tells cnn he still believes his crews are looking in the same place based on the pings and other data. >> one of the transmissions was analyzed side by side with an emergency locator beacon and the characteristics, the pulsing, was almost identical. so what we picked up from the ocean was something that was assessed as being very similar to an emergency locator beacon.
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>> well, the u.s. navy source says even though they have doubts about the third and fourth pings where the plane's black boxes they say that they will continue to go and search that area because of an absence of other data. so they are really going to hunt that down, search that area though there are those doubt. >> rene, stand by with us. i want to bring in aviation analyst peter fwrgoelz and law enforcement analyst tom fuentes. is it possible all four of the pings really aren't connected to the so-called black box and were just misidentified from the very start? >> sure. it's possible. but the ntsb still has high confidence in the area and in the first two pings, but, you know, they have got to search for it. i'm not disappointed they haven't found it on the first go. i mean, it is really hard at that depth. they need to do a more intensive search. >> they're bringing other u.s. agencies, not exactly sure which ones, into this whole investigation right now.
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at least it's encouraging to get fresh eyes. >> it's encouraging, wolf, but they also need to look at whether they have the right equipment. even if you say the area of the first two pings is a much better place to be looking, they didn't look there initially because the bluefin is limited in going that deep. so it also raises the question as the ocean shield makes its way back to where they were with the bluefin, instead of with an orion or some other capability that goes deeper in the ocean, it could still come up negative. >> the pings were supposed two 37.5 kilohertz. one set was 29? >> 27. >> 27. the other was 33. that's not 37.5. i thought that was the specific number they needed. >> right. wroun, when they first picked up those two initial pings on april 5th, and they said that it wasn't quite the 37.5, it was closer to 33, a lot of people said, well, that could be because of the dying battery, it could also be because of how deep the water was.
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so, that was the margin of error that they gave and they kind of shrugged that off a bit, but when we're hearing 37 kilohertz for the second set of pings that they're not too confident about, now that's a bit, a ways away from 37.5. >> as we heard david susey just say, why are we just hearing about this now? >> that's been a problem from the beginning and that leads to articles like that was in "the atlantic." without putting the raw data out, without being more open and transparent, there's going to be challenges at each and every decision that the search team makes. >> yeah, that article in "the atlantic" suggested that maybe the inmarsat satellite pings, those handshakes were wrong, too. that they're looking in the wrong place in general. >> right. it takes us back to the very beginning of the whole case. back on march 8th and shortly after where the credibility of the malaysian government was constantly being questioned because of changing data. now we're actually seeing that from the search team and we
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hadn't seen that before to this degree. like david susey mentioned, this information should have been out a long time ago. >> it looks like a lot of folks are losing total confidence in what those guys out there -- i know they're doing their best, working as hard as they can. a lot of folks are losing confidence. rene, my heart goes out to the family members who are still stuck in that limbo. they found no wreckage of the plane. on the other hand, they don't know to what believe anymore. >> right. it's fair to question the data. we've made the comparison so many times, but, you know, when you look at air france 447, they had a lot of false leads, had a situation where they heard pings. at least they thought they were pings and when they went to check it out, it -- they weren't pings from black boxes at all. someone mislabeled a tape from a testing that happened days before. and they were listening to the testing tape. so these mistakes happen. it's perfectly fair to raise these doubts about the data. but you know, it is a tough position because there's no evidence. without evidence, there will
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always be questions. >> rene mash, thanks very much. peter goelz, tom fuentes. still ahead, donald sterling's exclusive interview with our own anderson cooper. he's here in "the situation room." there he is. we'll speak to him live next. and a vote that is called a farce. we're getting new reaction. stand by. ♪
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we heard just a little while ago from the new ceo of the l.a. clippers. he doesn't sound impressed by donald sterling's apology for the racist remarks that got him banned from the nba for life. listen to richard parsons' response to sterling's exclusive
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interview with anderson cooper. >> they don't know this man, and haven't heard -- i guess that was today. i would observe as most americans i think would observe that he's a little late for sure. but beyond that, i'm here to help turn one of the burners off under the pot. not to turn it up higher. >> let's get some more now. brian todd is here in "the situation room." more on the sterling interview, the reaction. >> that's right, wolf. this is first time we heard at length from donald sterling and his estranged wife, shelly, on this scandal. donald sterling told anderson cooper he'll never do anything like this again. but consistent with his behavior in this case, there were some twists. >> i made a mistake. i hope it's in their heart to forgive me for that mistake. >> reporter: donald sterling is apologizing, but in an exclusive interview with cnn's anderson cooper, he insists he's not a racist and claims he was
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tricked. >> i don't know why the girl had me say those things. >> you're saying you were set up? >> well, yes, i was baited. i mean, it's not the way i talk. i don't talk about people, for one thing, ever. i talk about ideas and other things, but i don't talk about people. >> reporter: we reached out to v. stivian oo's attorney. stiviano seen here after being arrested for shop lifting ten years ago denied she leaked the recorded conversation to the media. her lawyer says that arrest was later expunged from her record. stiviano says she doesn't think sterling is racist. his estranged wife told abc's barbara walters the same thing. >> it was horrible when i heard it. it was just degrading and made me sick to hear it. >> reporter: shelly sterling hinted as a potential health issue. >> he saw the tape and he said, i don't remember saying that. i don't remember ever saying
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those things. >> what did you think then? >> that's when i thought he has dement dementia. >> reporter: donald sterling hasn't said anything to this point about his personal health. we asked a neurologist what if sterling has a mild tomorrow of dementia? could someone experiencing dim dim min sha say these things? >> that doesn't mean they don't have those beliefs. so if someone has held beliefs like that all his or her life, then a dementia might cause a disinhibition so he or she might be more likely to actually express those beliefs. >> what about severe dementia? dr. mark says with that it's possible to have racist thoughts you've never had before but it's improbable. he says for an illness to manufacture that kind of world view is very unlikely, wolf. >> clearly doesn't have severe dementia. >> not at this point. >> thanks very much. let's bring in cnn's anderson cooper along with anchor don lemon and senior
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legal analyst, jeffrey toobin. anderson, you spent quality time with this guy. did he give you the impression that he had at least early stages of dementia? >> look, i think in order to judge that sort of thing, you actually have to know a person for a long time, know what they were like ten years ago, to what they are now. i can certainly say i had no concerns about his state of mind doing this interview. this was somebody who i felt had dementia, i would not have done this interview, nor would we put it on television. donald sterling is clearly an accomplished attorney. knows his way around the courtroom. he came into the interview knowing what he wanted to say. and also being willing to answer just about any question that i put to him. you know, it was a contentious interview at times, emotional interview at times. we talked for well over an hour. he answered all the questions that i put to him. so he's certainly, you know, sees his situation. he's aware of the situation he's in. it's a situation the likes of which he has never been in before. he's certainly been in hot water before for things he said and
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been alleged to have done. he clearly believes there's a way for him forward in this situation. that he can somehow remain owner of the l.a. clippers. >> but i got the impression, anderson, correct me if i'm wrong from the excerpts you've released that it looks like he's ready to accept this notion that there's not going to be a huge legal battle and maybe he should just walk away. >> i wouldn't jump -- i wouldn't say that. he says multiple things in this interview. i think what -- i think his strategy, my sense of it is that is he's waiting for the next shoe to drop which is the owners actually voting. he will not go on the record saying he's going to fight it in court. i think he doesn't want to do anything that impacts or sways the way the owners are going to vote. but clearly, he's aware of his, you know, the possible legal challenges that he could execute. aware of, you know, a pending divorce with his wife which he acknowledges. could very easily tie this up in divorce court. the team is held in a trust.
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he also, i think believes there may be some sort of a negotiation with the nba that might be possible. he believes and you will hear this tonight that the players still support him. he believes the players, the l.a. clipper players, actually still love him and support him. >> well, that sounds -- let me get don lemon to weigh in. that sounds delusional, don. >> it does sound delusional but i think anderson is right. we don't know, you know, we're not doctors or psychologists. we don't know his medical history whether or not he has dement dementia. that certainly does sound delusional. he does not have to say he's going to fight legally. shell where, erks lrks lrk shelly is doing that. he's the good cop in all this. he's trying to change his reputation and public opinion so he gives an interview where he says i don't know about these things, not racist, i don't remember saying that, she baited me. listen, i don't know about anybody else on this panel, if something's not in my heart and something i'm not aware of, no
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one can bait me into saying anything that is beyond what i think. if i don't have racist thoughts in my head, there's nobody that can bait me into saying racist things things. to me, it does not make sense. >> jeffrey, i want you to weigh in but also, dick parsons, new ceo of the l.a. clippers. he ran the atlanta hawks, nba basketball team. he said only donald sterling was a controlling owner. there's only one controlling owner. that means if the nba bans him for life, all of the sterlings basically are gone. >> yeah. in the past couple days the nba has made very clear that there is no shelly option as far as they're concerned. all the sterlings have to go. they are now referring to the ownership group. they're saying the ownership group has to go which means donald sterling which is the owning of record but also the other shareholders. at least as far as the nba is
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concerned, they all have to go and frankly i think legally they will be on very solid ground in getting rid of a lot of them. >> anderson, i know all of us are looking forward to the full interview later tonight. give us a little preview because the clips that we've seen are so compelling. give us a little bit more of what we can expect 8:00 p.m. eastern? >> you know, he hints that this in up of the clips we released. comments on magic johnson. i think people are going to be stunned by his full comments on magic johnson. >> that's so shocking what he -- magic johnson is one of the most decent guys out there, has done enormous work for minorities and urban areas. created a lot, a lot of jobs. he's really given back to the community. what on earth would make donald sterling say he has really been bad for minorities? sfwl >> not just his business acumen, it's also the michael jordan foundation which for 20 years has given millions of dollars and raised millions and millions of dollars for hiv/aids awareness, for education, for community activities and
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outreach. so, again, i'm going to leave it up to donald sterling to kind of try to characterize his beliefs on magic johnson, but, again, i thc think that's the thing tomorrow you will see everywhere and people will be talking about. >> yeah, don, i think that there's nothing that's more outrageous than to try to belittle magic johnson like that. >> it is. let's just say he does have those feelings about magic johnson. this is right. does it mean he's correct about it? but if he does, he's in this particular situation, he shouldn't say anything. he just say i admire magic johnson, i'm sorry for what was said if i could take the words back, i would. he should not go on to then offend and say more bad things about magic johnson. it just does not make sense. for a smart man who's an attorney, he certainly said very stupid things. >> stupid things, indeed. thanks very much. anderson, the full interview, the exclusive interview, 8:00 p.m. eastern. don lemon, we'll see you back here 10:00 p.m. eastern. sure you'll have a lot of
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reaction to what's going on. jeffrey toobin, thanks to you as well. just ahead, breaking news coming into "the situation room." a house in a quiet neighborhood just erupted in a fiery explosion. look at these pictures. we'll have details right after this. life with crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis is a daily game of "what if's". what if my abdominal pain and cramps end our night before it even starts? what if i eat the wrong thing? what if? what if i suddenly have to go? what if? but what if the most important question
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or tim sbranti. dedicated teacher and coach... local mayor who balanced his budgets.. and environmental leader. it's why sbranti for assembly is endorsed by firefighters, nurses, and teachers. because tim sbranti will always work for you. breaking news coming into "the situation room." we're monitoring a dangerous
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situation in new hampshire. look at this. a house exploded in a fiery burst only a few moments ago. affiliate wmur reports multiple shots were fired in the house in brentwood. one police officer was injured. police were responding to the scene when the fire began. exploding moments later. fire crews are battling the blaze right now. going to bring you new details as they come in. awful, awful situation. other new developments happenings in crisis in ukraine right now. the country is closer to unraveling after a controversial vote by pro-russian separatists. our chief national security correspondent jim sciutto is following the developments for us. >> we have brand new satellite photos from the eastern border of ukraine. here this is off to the east. remember president putin made a promise last wednesday he was withdrawing his forces from the border. these satellite photos taken today show that isn't happening. you still have armored vehicles, tanks just as they were at the end of march. and this is happening as russian separatists declared
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independence in two eastern ukrainian towns after a hastily arranged referendum over the weekend. it had all the trappings of an election, polling stations, ballots in clear ballot boxes. and pro-russian separatists immediately claimed an overwhelming victory. as much as 90% of voters in donetsk and neighboring luhansk voting to separate from ukraine. cnn correspondents on the scene, however, reported seeing many people like this woman vote once, and then vote again. and officials in kiev were quick to dismiss the election as pure fiction. >> translator: that farce which the separatists call a referendum is nothing more than propaganda and an excuse for those crimes. awful crimes such as murder, torture, and kidnappings. >> reporter: russian officials express some public support for the vote.
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>> translator: we respect the will of the residents of the donetsk and luhansk regions and practical implementation of the results of the vote will be carried out in a civilized way. >> reporter: moscow did not declare it would annex the provinces as president putin did shortly after crimea held a similar referendum in march. with crucial national elections approaching may 25th, european officials intensified efforts to find a diplomatic solution. backed up now by a modest new round of economic sanctions targeting a handful of russian officials and two small russian companies. >> any attempt to disrupt those elections on may 25th in ukraine will be met by more severe sanctions. the imposition of more severe sanctions and that's something our european partners support. >> we have new results today from a new cnn poll conducted inside ukraine, a telephone
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poll. 1,000 respondents. interesting results. 2/3 of people approve of sanctions against russia in response to its intervention in ukraine. and 56% feel a stronger sense of loyalty to europe. only 19% to russia. a very telling results there. you see these pro-russian separatists in action, but when you look at the results of that poll there, it shows the majority of the people, that they don't feel that pull toward russia, that in fact they support the major positions of the government in kiev. >> looks like that situation is by no means getting better, probably worse by the day. >> you still have the divisions. it may be a minority that supports separation. it's a vocal and as we've seen a violent minority as well. >> certainly can be. jim, thank you have much for that report. very different, take a look at this. sean puff daddy combs and me. we have something new in common. so happy to report that we both received honorary degrees from howard university here in washington on saturday.
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>> doctor of humane letters, ho honorous, congratulations. >> i was honored to be recognized by howard university and the interim president, dr. wayne frederick for my contribution to journalism. i also got a chance to renew an acquaintanceship i had with the hip hop mogul sean combs. there he was. he was a student at howard in the 1980s. finished two years, never graduated, but he did give the commencement address on saturday. he did an excellent, excellent job. congratulations to dr. combs. i had a chance to speak with him and his mom. they were both thrilled that he finally got a degree. >> this was my mother's dream. she was kind of mad with me when i dropped out after two years. so to have it come full circle is just a blessing. >> thank god i had my million dollar baby, sean john combs. >> i love spending some good
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quality time with both of them. nice congratulatory hug. i was honored. thank you, thank you, howard university. remember, always follow us on twitter. tweet me @wolfblitzer. tweet the show @cnnsitroom. join us again tomorrow right here in "the situation room" and watch us live. dvr the show so you won't miss a moment. thanks very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." now let's step into the "crossfire" with newt gingrich and van jones. >> wolf, we're looking ahead to anderson cooper's exclusive interview with donald sterling. and we're debating the liberals' fantasy of a speech-controlled america. we're also debating the issue some conservatives have when we keep living in a country where liberty and justice for some. the debate is going to start right now. tonight on "crossfire." a cnn exclusive. the public shame of donald sterling. >> i'm not a racist. i made a terrible, terrible mistake. >> should the nba still force him to sell the clippers?
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and, this historic kiss is drawing praise every outrage. on the left, van jones. on the right, newt gingrich. in the "crossfire," jamal anderson, a former pro athlete, and harry jackson jr., senior pastor of hope christian church. are the speech police out of control? or are bigots getting what they deserve? tonight on "crossfire." welcome to "crossfire." i'm van jones on the left. >> i'm newt gingrich on the right. in the "crossfire" tonight, guests with different views on free speech. in 90 minutes l.a. clippers owner donald sterling speaks in an exclusive interview with cnn's anderson cooper. here's a preview. >> i'm a good member who made a mistake and i'm apologizing and i'm asking for forgiveness. am i entitled to one mistake after 35 years? i mean, i love my league. i love my part.
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it's a terrible mistake. and i'll never do it again. >> the vice president of the nba players association, roger mason, he said players won't accept anyone in the sterling family owning the clippers, not you, not your wife, not your son-in-law, not your daughter. do you believe that? >> i really don't know. the people that are going to decide my fate, i think, are not the media and not the players union, but the nba. >> the owners. >> pardon me? >> the owners. >> the owners. if the owners feel i deserve another chance, then they'll give it to me. >> but there is a path for you to fight their decision. isn't there? >> of course. but if you fight with my partners, what at the end of the road, what do i benefit? especially at my age? if they fight with me and they spend millions and i spend
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millions, let's say i win or they win, i just don't know if that's important. >> why wait so long to apologize? it's been a couple weeks. you could have come out -- >> that's a very good question. i just -- i'm so emotionally distraught, and the reason it's hard for me, very hard for me is that i'm wrong. i caused the problem. i don't know how to correct it. >> do you trust people? i mean -- >> i do. >> -- there have been a couple phone recordings in the last week or two of people you've talked to on the phone, seems to be your voice, who sold it to radar online or tmz. i hear that and think, do you have anyone you trust around you? >> i don't give interviews. the only one that i know that i talked to is magic johnson. >> you have talked to him. >> twice. and then -- yeah. >> did you apologize.
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>> he knew the girl he said. he knew the girl well. >> did you apologize to him? >> well, if i said anything wrong, i'm sorry. he's a good person, and he -- what am i going to say? has he done everything he can do to help minorities? i don't think so. but i'll say it, i'll say it, you know, he's great. but i just don't think he is a good example for the children of los angeles. >> you can see the entire interview at 8:00 eastern on cnn's "anderson cooper 360." you know, we used to be a free country. now we've entered an era of public self-confessions by people who have said or done unpopular things as said or done by the elite. if you're a christian, the elites say keep your mouth shut or we'll punish you.
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if you're against gay marriage the elites say keep your mouth shut or we'll pun issue. we're actually becoming a more repressive country. >> you know, i have to disagree with you on this one, newt. the people who get told to shut up, gays and lesbians still by the millions in the closet, afraid to speak up. you have women who have scared. we have people who can talk about this. in the "crossfire" former nfl star jamal anderson and bush some harry jackson jr. of the hope christian church, founder and chairman of the high impact leadership coalition. i want to start with you. i just don't get this. okay? >> all right. >> this is business. you're a conservative. >> uh-huh. >> you have always stood for the right of businesses and corporations to do what they want to. th do. this is a free market. what's wrong with the corporation saying they don't want to be associated this guy? what's wrong with this? >> i'm concerned about due process.
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if we were in the days of jim crow and happened to be black during that times you would have been in a world of hurt. so it depends on who's on top and who feels they have the upper hand. as newt implied, we're at a juncture in history now where some people are on the out. and with, you know, michael sam, as he is embracing his partner, a guy tweets derrick ward and says, hey, oh my goodness, this is on tv and now there's repercussions about that. where is the line is all i'm talking about? >> i want to get you in here because obviously you're the nfl guy. go ahead. i want to -- >> first of all, you said the nfl. this is an nba -- >> nba. >> we got both of them in the mix. >> you have to distance yourself. >> hopefully we don't have an owner who makes such salacious remarks. we don't want to dance away from that. >> reprehensible. >> here's the thing. we've seen due process here.
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there was a time here, a week before adam silver made a decision to ban sterling for life. there was a process in a group of owners who decided, who agreed with donald sterling to ban him. the things that he said and things he's done, this is a guy who when he bought the clippers in 1981 signed an agreement. signed a series of contracts and amendments that have since been updated each and every time that there's supposed to be certain amount of behavior. you're not supposed to do anything detrimental to the nba. you think this isn't? they walked away from him. >> other than fact you now live in a country where you have this pathetic statement by an 80-year-old guy. look at his body language. it's painful to watch this, okay? we're going through sort of a malice confession phase. here's what i'm intrigued by. black business association 2008 honored him as a great leader. 2009, the naacp in los angeles give him an award as a great leader.
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they were about to give an award this year. >> you have to question the motives. go ahead. >> there's a poster they pointed up for this 100th anniversary. here's ha they said they were doing this for. he gave away, according to them, 2,000 to 3,000 tickets every game for poor children to be able to go to basketball. and they said this is a guy who has really reinvested in the neighborhoods. now, everything he has said, that's gotten him in trouble, was off of a tape -- >> right. >> -- to a girlfriend. >> there's no question. >> so we now live -- let me ask it this way. out of all the different team owners in the country, because up until that girlfriend released that tape, he would not have been somebody who said we have to -- are you willing to say tonight we can be sure if we get rid of sterling that there's not another owner who's a hidden bigot who some morning is going to have a tape released or do something else? he did nothing public. it was all private. >> i don't think you can make those assurances. here's the thing, newt. >> we. >> the way, the dubious way the tape was released.
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i mean, come on. it was foul how the whole process went up. >> absolutely. >> the reality is if it's an accident and something -- he didn't deny it, number one. number two, adam silver when he announced his punishment couldn't tell the american people this guy has apologized at this point. he's just now apologizing weeks later. the morality clause ownership sign your conduct cannot be detrimental to the nba. >> he's reprehensible if i can throw this in. nobody is defending this guy as it stands. i've written books. you've written books. everybody's written a book. you got to say this kind of moral interpret tuesday clause like the phraseology. somebody's going to determine whether your morality or conduct is correct. all i think newt and i are saying is there's a slippery slope. >> guys, listen, to me this is bigger than this one guy. this is about more than one bigoted billionaire, dealing with intolerance from coast to coast. over the weekend, as you mentioned the twitter verse exploded in reaction to this kiss. the nfl has already handed out
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punishments. first i want to ask you this question. look at today's fireback quiz. in how many states can you be fired just for being gay? is it none? is it 15? is it 29? we're going it give you those answers when we get back of these messages. america's newest real estate brand is all ready the brand of the year. berkshire hathaway home services. good to know.
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welcome back. in little more than one hour, nba owner donald sterling is going to speak out in an exclusive interview with cnn's anderson cooper, but there is new controversy in sports tonight. over the weekend, michael sam became the first openly gay player forecast edrafted into t. this kiss celebrating his pick ignited a firestorm.
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now, miami dolphins player don jones actually tweeted omg and horrible in response to this kiss. the nfl was quick to punish jones. that's because the dolphins know what the rest of corporate america has figured out, teams are businesses and intolerance is bad. we have jamal and bishop harry jackson jr. in the "crossfire." some conservatives say this is about living in a free country and need to preserve our freedom. let me ask this question. what is free about gay employees who are unable to express themselves for fear of being fired? look at tonight's "crossfire" quiz, in 29 state, more than half the country, you can be fired, even if you're doing a great job, just for being gay. now, bishop, how do you square that with your conservative commitment to freedom? where's the freedom in that map? >> well, as an african-american, i'm not for anybody being truly
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discriminated against, but if you have a different code of lifestyle and you want to live a different way, you shouldn't be hindered. there's a difference between you saying terrible, discriminatory things, firing people off of jobs. doing the don sterling thing is really reprehensible in terms of his attitude. >> let me just -- i really want do get your response to this. >> okay. >> i hear people saying, you know, we're losing our freedom. newt said at the beginning we're becoming a repressive country. the people who are the most passionate about saying that, i don't see them jumping up saying therefore let's not repress gays, let's not repress lesbians. conservatives who are so pass n passionate about tweeting the word horrible. >> if there's an imp position,
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the chic-fil-a thing comes to mind. the history of cnn has been good. you've been able to hear the other side on other things. often out there we don't have the freedom. >> let me give you an example. let me say in advance, i think michael sam is a brilliant marketeer. we'll see how good a football player he is. if you look at his new visa commercial, already cut, already ready before saturday, this guy understands how to manipulate the media and maximize his impact. take the case of derrick ward, retired super bowl champion. he's now getting death threats because of the following tweet. he tweeted, i'm sorry, but that michael sam is no bueno for doing that on national tv. i'm fine with it being a new day and age, but for him to do that on national tv is disgusting, gay or not. man, you have little kids looking at the draft. i can't believe espn even allowed that to happen. now, doesn't it worry you that
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he apparently is getting death threats for this tweet? >> there's no question it worries me that he's getting death threats. when you tweet out about a gay athlete for the first time ever is being drafted into the nfl, that celebration is part of it. nobody would have said anything if michael sam would have turned and kissed a beautiful young lady. he's a gay american. this is, in fact, how he chose to celebrate. yes, it surprised a lot of people and may have been the first time a lot of people have seen that, but this is about inclusiveness. >> specifically, because i think you talk about how you want to be inclusive, except, of course, if somebody tweets this, having a death threat or let's send them off to sensitivity training. that's repression. that's not inclusive. >> is it repressive to try to teach them to be understanding and open to other people, especially when you talk about people they have not been exposed to? >> shouldn't you also be
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teaching people gay understanding of people -- >> that's a good point. >> i think people who are gay and lesbian have to spend their entire lives learning how to get around the minefields. this whole term "out of the closet" is a reflection of the fact they have to deal with those minefields. my question to you is simply this, is it your view a corporation does not have the right to pick and choose who it wants to associate with? they do, and part of the thing is, you know, when we talk about the kinds of speech that i think everybody finds offensive, i want to show this, these kinds of signs, like this, this is free speech, but i don't think any corporation in the world would want to be associated with that. do you agree with that? >> i absolutely agree with you, but what's concerning to me is a slippery slope of who gets to decide who gets punished. >> hold on a second -- >> i've had death threats, by the way. >> so have i. can you tell me the government agency forcing the nba or nfl to
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do this? isn't this about businesses understanding where the market is? >> it is, but in a strange way, this guy is going to make a bazillion dollars and get rewarded for his bigotry, so are we giving him or the society the sleeves out of our vest and making all this nonsense? >> look, i think this whole thing is a fiasco, because you have a clever young guy who's manipulated the system brilliantly and now caught a visa ad. watch the visa commercial. >> i understand, but i don't think you can say he's manipulated the situation. understand the immense amount of bravery it takes, he came out and put himself in a draft, first player ever. >> watch the commercial. >> another key for michael sam, johnny manziel, 22nd pick, big time in the draft, obviously, everybody was talking about it. right now currently of new players, the number two jersey seller is michael sam. >> let me say, stay here, we want you at home to weigh in on today's fire back question,
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should fellow nba owners force donald sterling to sell his team? tweet yes or no usin using #crossfire. we will have the results after the break. we also have the outrage of the day. i'm always outraged by liberal denial. you'll see the latest example next.
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welcome back to "crossfire." now, our outrages of the day. i'm outraged about liberals' endless capacity to deny the fact. the latest example is on public television.
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>> i would like to point out that ambassador stevens was not murdered, he died of smoke inhalation of a safe room in that cia installation. >> the fact is, there never would have been a fire if terrorists had not attacked the benghazi post. they did. ambassador chris steins stevens died. it was murder. no amount of liberal denial will make it anything else. >> i will not argue with you about that. i'm outraged by congressman john fleming. now, he was asked about our veterans who are dying while on the waiting list at the va. this is a terrible scandal. everybody's upset about it, both parties are outraged. nobody should use the strategy, though, to score cheap political points, except fleming, who said, "this is the type of thing you would see from, you guessed it, obamacare." look, first of all, obamacare is saving lives right now, but you know what's really killing
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people? ask the 40 governors blocking the expansion of medicaid, denying coverage to 20 million people. that could kill about 6,000 people a year and one of the governors who's doing it, congressman, is in louisiana. if you're concerned about politicians messing up health care, start by giving your governor, bobby jindal, a call. >> we'll debate that later. let's check on our fire back results. should fellow nba owners force donald sterling to sell his team? right now, 35% of you say yes. 65% of you say no. how would you two vote? >> i would vote yes. i would vote yes. i think it's pretty clear, the statement from the mayor's office said we still believe a change in the organization is good for our city and for our players. >> i'd like to see more ongoing penalty penalties and see him rehabilitate himself. >> listen, very good. thank you, jamaal anderson and
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you, jackson jr. debate will continue online. from the left, i'm dan jones. >> from the right, i'm newt gingrich. join us tomorrow for "crossfire" and tomorrow at 3:30, i'll be answering questions on facebook. "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. next, new video tonight of the girls held hostage in nigeria. the terrorist group says it's going to negotiate. should it happen? plus, l.a. clippers owner donald sterling speaks exclus e exclusively to cnn, slams magic johnson again. and the american navy has new questions about the evidence tonight. let's go "outfront." good evening, everyone, i'm erin burnett, and "outfront" tonight, we begin with the breaking news out of new hampshire tonight, a search under way for victims after a home exploded on live television. officers were first called to this